Is this Proof that Derren Brown’s Apocalypse was Staged and Fake? Is Steve Brosnan an Actor

I have always been a big fan of Derren Brown. I have seen everything he has done. I realise that he’s an “entertainer” and not everything is how it seems. I have just watched Derren Brown’s Apocalypse on catchup TV and I was blown away. It was an amazing show.

However, after a little research is seems that the “victim” could be an actor. The rumours have started on Twitter already and it unfortunately looks like a “stooge” may have been used. If these alegations turn out to be true then I will be gutted and will question everything Derren has done in the past.

Anyway, on with the screenshots.

Lots of people on forums has researched our victim and posted a link to suggest that he was an actor. Pay close attention to the Twitter account link on the screenshot below.

(Edit: This profile has been confirmed as genuine by Steve himself on a YouTube video with Derren Brown).

Steve Brosnan on

Steve Brosnan on Look at the Twitter username. Click to enlarge.


Here is a screenshot of the Twitter account. There is no doubt that this is our man!

Steve Brosnan's Twitter account.

Steve Brosnan’s Twitter account. Click to enlarge.


The profile on has since been changed. His height, weight, eye colour, hair colour, ethnicity all changed which suggests that they know that they have been rumbled. Again take note of the URL bar and the Twitter account link. Also note the haste of the profile edit. He’s described as “Very Large” but his weight is 7 stone.

Steve Brosnan's profile changed to Craig Harwood.

Steve Brosnan’s profile changed to Craig Harwood. Click to enlarge.


If you want further evidence then check out his Facebook page. Filming on the set for a BBC pilot.

Steve Brosnan on Facebook. Starring in an Adam Buxton BBC TV pilot.

Steve Brosnan on Facebook. Filming on the set for a BBC pilot. Click to enlarge.


UPDATE: The profile on has changed again 😀 The Twitter account link has been removed.

Profile has changed again! The Twitter Link has now been removed

Profile has changed again! The Twitter Link has now been removed. Click to enlarge.


All the above 99.9% confirms what I do not want to hear. Make up your own minds about this. Part 2 should be interesting.

The link to his acting profile can be found at although I think that this will probably be deleted at some point.


Also, here is the “disappearing bottles” scene (continuity error?) that people are talking about. Some people claim that the bottles rolled out of shot due to the ambulance moving. You will notice that the ambulance was not moving.




I notice that Channel 4 have stated, “Steven is not and never has been a professional actor.”

We didn’t suggest that he is a professional actor. This would mean that acting is his full time job. Someone that does acting as a hobby or to make a few extra quid in their spare time is NOT a professional actor. Channel 4 are playing this cool but to use the word “professional” makes a lot of difference to this argument. Many people would not know the difference between an “actor” and a “professional actor”.

Derren posts Q&A and tackles the issues raised on this blog:

There are a couple of contradictions for example, saying, “Misleading the public in a TV show is a big deal, and a massive lie like that wouldn’t be permitted by the channel.”

Despite this, he has misled the public before with the “real bullet” Russian Roulette stunt which was later debunked by the police:

Also, Derren used a professional actress in one of his Trick of the Mind TV shows. See:


Derren’s video response on Steve not being an actor. The truth? Denying accusations is not exactly considered to be the “truth”. Do you trust politicians when they deny rumours or allegations?

UPDATE: 30/10/2012:

This webpage has been found at (a Twitter search engine) containing a Tweet from Steve Brosnan:  In case it gets deleted, here is a screenshot. There are lots of deleted photos on the page too.

Did Steve already know the plot of Apocalypse as far back as the 17th August? A Tweet suggests he did as there are a couple of references to the Wizard of Oz, just like on the show itself. Steve was being taken to a gig on the coach a day before his birthday which is the 1st September.

Did Steve Brosnan already know the plot of Apocalypse?

Did Steve Brosnan already know the plot of Apocalypse before filming? Note the Wizard of Oz references and the date of the Tweet.


Watch Derren Brown’s Apocalypse – Part 1 & Part 2 online via Youtube.

Part 1 :

Part 2:

474 Comments – Click here to view/post comments

Posted on October 28, 2012 at 10:05 am by Grumpy Git · Permalink
In: TV & Radio · Tagged with: , , , , ,

474 Responses

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  1. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 11:31 am

    I don’t think anyone doubted that Barry was not a real person. There are all sorts of rumours flying about but I don’t believe them as there is nothing to back them up. I am simply questioning Apocalypse based on my own post. I have read “chinese whispers” on other sites and the ‘evidence’ is already getting screwed up!

  2. Written by Wavey
    on 29/10/2012 at 11:32 am

    There really would have been a lot more swearing. It was just so ‘safe’. It looked and felt like an am dram improv workshop.

  3. Written by Billy Reid
    on 29/10/2012 at 11:35 am

    It looks bad, but surely (SURELY) if C4 and Derren were going to use an actor they would ensure all traces of his acting career were taken care of prior to the show going out on Friday night. It’s just unthinkable that they would spend so much money putting this show together and overlook something so blatantly obvious. Thoughts?

  4. Written by Joz
    on 29/10/2012 at 11:36 am

    You’re right, a lot of it is getting very confused. There are relatively good arguments on both sides. Derren Brown has said on Twitter that he’s compiling a Q&A to deal with the allegations, so I’m going to wait and see how much that clears up.

  5. Written by TinHatty
    on 29/10/2012 at 11:36 am

    Has anybody considered this may be not merely a tv program but also and Alternate Reality game that we are all participating in by discussing it?

  6. Written by Tasha
    on 29/10/2012 at 11:39 am

    In all honesty……I think everyone going mental about it is a bit sad. There’s some sort of theory like this about absolutely everything that goes on tv from the x factor to the subject of this thread, Derren Brown – some of it will be true, some not. At the end of the day, he’s an entertainer and his whole act is around deception and manipulation. Real or not – I thought Apocalypse was interesting and intense, the idea behind it and the set up alone was very clever and I give him credit for it. I fully intend on watching the second episode and am still a huge fan of Derren’s.

  7. Written by Biomech
    on 29/10/2012 at 11:51 am

    If you look, the position of the bottles having moved it is consistent with Steve moving his legs and subsequently the pillow he is sitting on, which you can clearly see has also changed. It is also common practice in editing to voice over video that isn’t matched. It could very simply be the Scottish guys voice (we don’t see him when the bottles have moved) layered over a slightly later shot. Maybe the door didn’t close the first time or Steve started asking questions that would lead to a messy edit.

    Also, I have an IMDB page for a film, does that mean that when I was on a documentary I was acting?

    Haters gunna hate.

  8. Written by Wavey
    on 29/10/2012 at 11:57 am

    I think it’s possible that DB embarked on the project with good intentions, but over stretched himself. It feels like he has faked certain factors to try and keep the project on the rails, especially if things started to fall apart after large sums of money had already been committed. I realise this is total speculation, but it might explain why there are such good arguments on both sides.

  9. Written by minicam
    on 29/10/2012 at 12:00 pm

    Absolutely right Biomech. As per my previous post, I can absolutely vouch that hours and hours of footage were shot. Will they all be used? No. Will some footage be used with different sound played over the top? Yes. Will some footage from ‘earlier’ sections shot be used in sections with ‘later’ footage? Yes. This is how editing works.

    Days of footage need to be condensed to make 2 one hour programmes. Come on, this is pretty elementary stuff.

  10. Written by dezisalegend
    on 29/10/2012 at 12:14 pm

    Did it not occur that the water bottles may have been moved due to the editing of the show?? The show needs to be edited, otherwise we would be sat watching hours of filming! They had an hour programme to fit months of filming into.. Stop being so negative! Get a life detective and just enjoy the programme! Meh!

  11. Written by LadyV
    on 29/10/2012 at 12:15 pm

    Why do you all think actors are needed for a show like this? What would an average, normal person do if this happened? Scream and cry for hours on end – not good telly. Try to kill themselves knowing the world has ended and all their loved ones are dead – not good for obvious reasons. Go into hiding for hours/days/weeks – not good telly. Have a nervous breakdown – would make great telly but not the point. This is why an actor is needed, someone that is going to take the show where it is meant to go. I will say it again, this is not the first time actors have been part of Derrens shows, what are the chances of more than one actor being used by accident? For Channel 4 to say that this Steve is not an actor and never has been (read todays Daily Mail) says to me they are in on it and Steve is an actor otherwise they would have said “we were not aware yadda yadda” but to blatantly deny it when he IS an actor and all the evidence is there speaks volumes. Comments in the DM say its obvious he is an actor too.

  12. Written by viv
    on 29/10/2012 at 12:29 pm

    Its also been found out that when Apocalypse was being filmed (which was meant to be Aug 24th) – on this very day Stephen Brosnan (the actor not actor) was at the Reading Festival ( lol lots of fake stuff going on. Fake members of the public, fake dates – what next?

  13. Written by Hayden
    on 29/10/2012 at 12:29 pm

    Another error on the show:
    Derren said Steve’s father removed the starter motor fuse so the car wouldn’t start, but you hear the engine turning over when he turns the key: this would not happen!

  14. Written by jeff Russell
    on 29/10/2012 at 12:41 pm

    The whole idea of the show is based on the premise that Steve is unaware of whats happening and he is behaving as he is, under hypnosis.

    If he is acting then is ruins the whole idea of the show. I’ve been to all Derren Browns stage shows and had huge respect but I wont be watching the second part.

    That Derren used someone with albeit small acting experience but a brother who is a professional actor smacks of using a stooge and if Steve was acting to a script then it ruins the whole concept.

    To make it work (if he was to use an actor) he needed an unknown who had been to drama school and as such was trained, but hasnt got any acting credits to be traced back to him. This makes Steve a perfect choice for acting a part.

    Derren can deny deny deny, but if it was hypnotism and not acting then in the research for the show Steve and his brother shouldnt have been considered (out of the hundreds of candidates) unless their acting skills were integral to the shows success?

    The cast of The Only Way is Essex are not actors, not professional actors but they are acting to a script and I feel so was Steve

  15. Written by Biomech
    on 29/10/2012 at 12:45 pm

    LadyV, remind me not to team up with you at the end of the world. Crying on the floor will only get you killed. Personally, I’d shit my pants, then grab some meds then go looking for weapons. If the situation is controlled – as in the show – you can guide people away from what they want.

    AS FOR THE ACTING PAGE: Seriously? Look at it, even the original cached copy, he was in community play 4 years ago. Hardly the aspiring actor.

    Haters gunna hate

  16. Written by Biomech
    on 29/10/2012 at 12:49 pm

    To be honest though, I am a fan and everything, but I’m sure that when he woke up it said “1st September 2012 Steves Birthday”, but the video feed on the TV flicked between “2nd September 2012” and “15th September 2012”

    Any clarification on this? Just going to try and find the video now…

  17. Written by Biomech
    on 29/10/2012 at 12:54 pm

    Just checked. The TV broadcast flicks between 2nd September and 13th September 2012, despite Steve waking up on his birthday stated as 1st September (and mouldy food indicating he was alseep much longer)

  18. Written by adrian
    on 29/10/2012 at 12:58 pm
  19. Written by Biomech
    on 29/10/2012 at 1:03 pm

    Ok sorry my bad ignore that date thing I posted. Clearly the 1st September was our reference and the dates on the TV faked for Steve 😛

    Feel like a right fool now 😛

  20. Written by TinHatty
    on 29/10/2012 at 1:21 pm

    Biomech you say “haterz gonna hate” c`mon mate settle yourself and relax a bit.
    Nobody here is hatin` we are having an enjoyable interesting discussion about a television program.
    Nothing has been commented that suggests “hatred” nothing has been said to cause distress or alarm to any individuals.

    Infact, if indeed Steve really did believe this whole experience to have been real, being “accused” of being an actor isnt really a big horrific deal compared to believing that the world has ended.

    If Derren loses a few fans, thats no big deal either, fans and followers come and go daily.

    Why so defensive?

  21. Written by window_eye
    on 29/10/2012 at 1:27 pm

    What!? Wait!? I thought Derren Brown was a Space Wizard that could magic thought out of a mind with a twist of his beard! Please don’t tell me I was duped!

    Seriously though. Is Derren not an entertainer rather than an impossible supernatural force?

    He purposefully presents things in a specific way in an attempt to generate an effect. Just like all magicians, mentalists and TV show/Film makers.

    I don’t understand people when they are saying they feel duped. Do you really think that Derren Brown can reach into your mind and bend it to his will? That’s not even what’s being claimed. He has frequently used the disclaimer that his shows are constructed using “magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship”. This is no big secret.

    He presents selected parts of the preparation work then presents selected effects of that work. With the aim of getting an overall positive emotional response and experience for the viewer (and sometmes participant). Any fakery is audience interpretation of what they are assuming is implied fact by the parts of the story that Derren purpsefully leaves out.

    If you don’t like the effect that has been presented, that’s fair enough, but it doesn’t constitue the accusation of “fake”.

    I do love the reading comments that Derrens show’s always inspire. Watching people filling the gaps in the presentation with all kinds of wild, weird and wonderful theories. Incredible the way that the human mind races to fill gaps and find patterns when presented with minimal information.

    The reality is that no-one has presented enough clear information to proove anything one way or another and they probably never will. Anything from the TV show can be dismissed as editing (either a mishap or result of a shortened scene) and anything on the internet with relation to Barry, acting profiles, either don’t change the effect of the show or are easily faked or misinterpreted.

    The question I believe that people are most bothered about is: Is Barry a paid actor that is fully aware of all planning, production and script?

    Only he can really tell you that, but here’s what seems reasonable and realistic to me.

    He is a volunteer participant who would make an excellent participant in a stage hypnosis show. He basically knows what’s going on, he knows its a show, but he pretty much plays along.

    The emotions he feels are genuine (you get scared in a horror house or rollercoaster even though you know there is no risk) and the audience gets to watch someone learn to feel what it could be like to lose your nearest and dearest…..and watch a man get chased around by paid actors dressed as Zombies (just like the Walking dead really isn’t it :P).

    Just sit back. Relax. Use your imagination and get lost in the fantasy of it. Enjoy the show. Or go watch something else if you don’t like it. Simple 🙂 It’s what everyone does with every other TV show.

    The guy who mentioned ‘Psychodrama’, excellent comment and the active participant stuff too.

  22. Written by Millz
    on 29/10/2012 at 1:56 pm

    Gotta laugh at all this. The fact there’s all these theories on whether or not its real or fake is building a huge publicity train for the program, which no doubt will mean massive viewing figures for tonights repeat (a coincidence that it’s being reapeated the same day the media are running the stories?!?) as well as for Fridays episode.

    When watching ANY program in a similar mould to this, if you look hard enough for holes you’ll find them. However, it’s the credibility of those holes that people really need to question.

    The whole water bottle incident for example is easily explained (either by the way the scene is edited or by the fact Steven kicked the bottles with his foot) and for most others programs this explanation would suffice…… however because of the nature of this program people are inclined to look for a conspiracy and find one here.

    As for him being an actor, and a bad one at that, really!? Why, because he’s not acting out the scene like how an ACTOR would have done in the films people have watched. If anything this only adds more credibilty to the fact he isn’t an actor because he isn’t doing what he’s seen on films, he’s doing what comes naturally to him (which in my opinion is he’s being a gormless mummys boy without any idea what to do, the fact he wanted his brother more than anything else suggests he relies on his brother to look after him). On top of this when someones agruement is “if I were in that situation I wouldn’t have done that” I think it’s fair to say that their arguement is ridiculous. Everyone reacts in different ways, and in the most extreme of circumstances it’s pretty fair to pressume NO ONE really know how they’d react. Everyone would like to think of themselves getting “tooled” up an being a hero but in reality I bet very few would do that if it were to happen to them. Survival is key so why tackle something you can run away from.

    The last hole people seem to be grasping on to is his acting profile pages. Personally I’d say the best explanation is that he’s done this due to the fact his brother is in this line of work and from the look of things he looks upto his big brother so tried to follow in his footsteps (as well as trying lots of other career avenues as well). If he were an actor of any sort his friends and family would echo this fact around where he lives and the media would have a field day with it.

    Personally I think he’s not an actor. However, considering some of the stunts DB has pulled in the past (and the cheap tactics he’s used to pull them, i.e. nothing more than a camera trick) I can’t blame people for not believing it.

  23. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 2:24 pm

    We know that Derren is an “entertainer rather than an impossible supernatural force” but we are debating that the “victim” may be an actor who is in on the whole thing (scripted) and not some random person picked from thousands of applicants or just someone that wants to get into acting. If this is the case, is it not misleading and a lie?

  24. Written by Hiltonite
    on 29/10/2012 at 2:43 pm

    Grumpy Git, I’m disappointed to read your latest updates to the blog article! The problem is that you are not offering a balanced argument. I can understand that this is your opinion but now that your article is high-profile there will be many people reading your article and making up their mind based on the very little evidence you offer.

    Your title for instance…”Is this proof that…?” . No, no it isn’t proof. There is absolutely nothing that has been discovered or discussed that provides PROOF that the show was staged. If there was conclusive proof then there would be no need for debate.

    Anyway, the disappearing bottle scene- initially I thought it was because the ambulance was moving (unfortunately for me I was only thinking from memory and hadn’t seen a replay of the clip). Now that I know it isn’t due to the moving ambulance…the second most logical explanation is that the scene was put together using video editing. You know, like how all TV shows are edited? (sorry for sarcasm). So, rather than the scene being faked and some idiot forgetting to put the bottles back in the same place, what happened was that the second clip (with the bottles in a different position) belonged to a different timeframe than the other clips.

    Regarding channel 4’s statement… you are reading far too much into it. This is another example of your willingness to believe that this is faked – beyond reason. A channel 4 rep didn’t sit for hours pondering over a loophole between the definitions of actor and professional actor in order to “lie” about Steve’s involvement in the show .

    The fact that there is no conclusive proof that the show was faked is conclusive proof in itself that the show was NOT faked. You think Channel 4 employees and execs are trying to cover this up? Or do you think Derren lied to channel4 in order to get the show commissioned? Do you think Derren hired 100s of stooges, technicians, etc. etc. yet he lied to them all to cover up the fact that the show was ‘fake’? Can’t you see that this would be such a pointless exercise for Derren? or for TV in general?

    I’m interested to know – since you think it was fake – how many people were involved in it being staged? I want you to think a bit more clearly (and sanely) about what you are stating

    PS: I bet you thought 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government right?

  25. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 3:07 pm

    I am not trying to offer a balanced argument! I am posting what I think looks a bit suspicious and letting readers make up their own mind.

    The title of the blog, “Is this proof?” is not a statement from me to say that it’s all been faked and our Steve is in on the whole thing. It’s letting the reader decide. You say that’s it not proof. That is fair enough, it’s your opinion. Other have the same opinion as me based on what is on this page and nothing else. The blog is not meant to be aggressive towards Derren directly accusing him of lying (unlike other websites) but it is asking some serious questions
    The truth is that there will be not conclusive proof one way or another. There will always be arguments for both sides.

    The point of this page is very simple, a few thing do not add up. No mention of acting or actors in the family yet it seems there are at least 2 actors, maybe 3.

    To answer your question with regards to whether the actors were also in on it…

    The people on the coach saw Steve “hypnotised” by Derren then both Steve and Derren left the coach. For the actors on the coach and outside, that was the end of their involvement.

    There were not many other actors after that, the zombies and Ian, the girl etc would all be bound to non disclosure agreements as well as certain crew with heavy financial penalties if anything was leaked out. It would certainly damage Derrens career beyond repair.

    Anyway, that is a theory. Part 2 may prove me and likewise thinkers wrong. We’ll all have to wait and see.

    As for the 9/11 comment. I didn’t expect you to get personal with me, but hey ho, I’ll get over it 😉

  26. Written by Hiltonite
    on 29/10/2012 at 3:09 pm

    Also: To whoever it is that set up … HAHAHAHA.

    Truly one of the most pathetic websites I’ve ever seen. I find it hilarious that you are thoroughly watching and rewatching a show that you evidently dislike – just so you can find continuity errors in editing (which, by the way, prove nothing). You even bought a domain name!


  27. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 3:14 pm

    Yeah, that was my reference to this blog not being aggressive compared to others 🙂

    As for me, I want to be proved wrong. I love what Derren has done in the past but for me, some questions need to be answered first for me to believe.

    You said that there is not much evidence to go on from this site, if that is the case then it shouldn’t be too hard to convince people of the show’s integrity and have perfectly good answers for the questions raised.

  28. Written by Hiltonite
    on 29/10/2012 at 3:15 pm

    Grumpy Git, sorry to get personal 😛 With the 9/11 comment I was just providing an exaggerated parallel between what I believe is a very silly conspiracy theory – that Steve was in on it.

    Now, I will concede this. It is possible (based on my viewing of the first episode) that Steve realised the apocalypse was a hoax and played along with it. But for him to be IN ON IT is a totally different matter and one which I think is simply not true.

    Regarding the actors who are in on it…we saw from the clip of episode 2 that there are dozens of zombie actors that would have to be lied to. There is also the radio DJs that would either have to be lied to or sign NDAs. There are so many people involved in making the episode that they would either all ahve to be lied to (simply impossible) or all sign NDAs (unrealistic scenario given that, as you say, someone leaking the truth would be fatal to derrens entire career). There is no point in Derren faking the whole thing.

  29. Written by Millz
    on 29/10/2012 at 3:27 pm

    Grumpy Git, I think the fact that people seem to be refusing to listen to the “evidence” regarding bottle incident (the fact it’s a piece of editing) proves that no matter what evidence is presented to them, unless there is a 100% definitive answer, they will chose to twist it however they can to back up their conspiracy theories.

    Simple logic and common sense suggests it would be silly and unnecessary to use an actor, but people looking for conspiracies put logic and common sense to one side to argue their theories.

  30. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 3:27 pm

    The DJ’s, Tim lovejoy etc were not at the filming of the action scenes so they would not be aware or any possible “secrets”.

    Maybe he did play along with it rather than it being scripted. It would explain the wooden acting.

    You would think that Derren would avoid choosing anyone remotely linked to acting or being an actor. the includes Steve’s brother who is publically known and listed as a professional actor. There are rumours that their mother has dabbled in acting but I don’t believe that until I see proof.

    As for there being no point in faking it, what about ratings? They are quite important 🙂

    We all have opinions, I am not dismissing yours, you may well be right and I’m wrong. I will live with that. My opinion can be changed but I’ll need convincing first.

  31. Written by Millz
    on 29/10/2012 at 3:39 pm

    Why does he need to fake it for ratings? Will an actor draw in a bigger audience than a non-suspecting person? Will people give it higher ratings because he’s an actor and provides better entertainment?

    Yes we all have opinions but I think you’l need to come up with a better reason for “faking it” than ratings.

  32. Written by Luke
    on 29/10/2012 at 3:55 pm

    Steve is not an actor. Get that into your thick heads

  33. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 3:57 pm

    Sensationalisation = larger audience = more projects = increased earnings and kudos 🙂
    Newspapers have been sensationalising stories since time began so they can sell more papers.

    Without decent ratings, further shows would not be commissioned. You’re almost putting words into my mouth. You asked me what purpose faking the whole show would have. I answered ratings. Why else?

    I am disappearing for bit, things to do, people to see. I shall be back in a bit.

  34. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 29/10/2012 at 4:00 pm


    “It is a criminal offence to hypnotise someone for entertainment purposes without having a licence under the Stage Hypnotism Act 1952. The Home Office Guidelines for issuing licences stipulate that the participant must give their informed consent (which would defeat the whole purpose of Apocalypse) and that “the performance shall be so conducted as not to be likely to cause harm, anxiety or distress to any person in the audience or any hypnotised subject” (again, that is breached by the whole concept of the show). So as far as I can see, there’s no way a licence could be issued for genuine hypnotism to be used in this way in the show, and under those circumstances the television channel would presumably not clear it for broadcast, as they have their own regulations in relation to the laws, etc., that govern performances of this type.”

    – Donald Robertson

    Also, if Steve unwittingly deviated from the script even once – just once – the whole elaborate thing would be utterly ruined.

    “Steven is not and never has been a professional actor.”

    Doesn’t take a genius to work out why C4 worded it like that. Reminds me of Clinton’s famous Lewinsky denial.

  35. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 29/10/2012 at 4:05 pm

    Steve may not be an actor, but it’s still all bollocks, I reckon. Enjoyable bollocks, nonetheless.

    Bring on part deux.

  36. Written by Millz
    on 29/10/2012 at 4:14 pm

    Grumpy Git, I understand the whole “sensationalisation = larger audience = more projects = increased earnings and kudos” but an actor wouldn’t bring these things anymore than an unsuspecting volenteer would.

    Personally I think watching an actor would be just like watching every other horror film you’ve ever seen. Whereas using a normal everyday unsuspecting person would surely be more interesting and intriguing, thus sensationalising it more, which in turn draws a larger audience, creates more scope for future projects, and increases earnings and kudos.

    The whole show is based around the main character not knowing it’s fake so what LOGICAL reason is there to take this factor away by using an actor?

  37. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 4:22 pm

    To stop deviation from the script. To stop him beating the shit out of someone. To ensure it all goes smoothly so it doesn’t blow tons of money and credibility if it all goes wrong.

    Would you allow your daughter to play the part of Leona? What if he freaked out totally and lashed out at her, maybe thinking she was infected? To my shame, in that situation I would have looked after number 1 and binned her off straight away lol

    If he is genuine, do you not think it would be very risky to have a young girl as his sidekick?

  38. Written by Millz
    on 29/10/2012 at 4:36 pm

    Fair enough, that’s a lot more logical than what you said previously.

    Personally though I think like Derren said at the very start, they run extensive physcological tests on him when at the interview. No doubt from the answers he gives, they get a very good idea what his reactions would be in different situations, and as Derren stated, his test results showed him to be the perfect candidate. Perfect being someone who is very little risk to themselves or anyone else, as well as other things.

    In all fairness the guy looked like a bunny in the headlights, he isn’t a risk to anyone. Leona was comforting him in the ambulance, not the other way round (personally I think he needs to man up!!)……. and I’m sure Derren and his team could’ve probably predicted this from the physcological profile they compiled.

    Also, like Derren said, there’s a team of people near them at all times in case anything unexpected happens.

  39. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 4:45 pm

    Wouldn’t it be too late to jump in if he decided to wrap a chair around her neck? The damage would already be done. Even if his physcological profile checked out, you cannot predict how someone could react in that situation. I am a totally non violent person but if that happened to me I would be instantly tooled up ready to kick some zombie arse. Also, when running away from them, I would not be jogging away, I would be full sprint out of there. If the girl didn’t keep up then that’s her problem 😀 Imagine Danny Dyer on there.That would be me! COME ON YOU ZOMBIE SLAAAAAGS

  40. Written by Millz
    on 29/10/2012 at 4:58 pm

    I think you proved a previous point of mine. The old “I’d have done this” or “I’d have done that” or “why did he do that, I wouldn’t have in his situation”. It proves nothing, all it proves is you’re different to him. No doubt if you’d have applied to be in his position Derren and his team would have knocked you back because of your physcological profile.

    You can clearly see this guy ain’t a fighter, he’d run like the wind before fighting, and I’m pretty sure you’ll see this on Friday.

  41. Written by Ricki
    on 29/10/2012 at 5:07 pm

    I think the guy is still in a hypnosis state.
    He totally lacks emotion.
    Lets face it we all seen enough Zombie/infected films, so candid camera would come to mind.

  42. Written by Peter
    on 29/10/2012 at 5:23 pm

    Seems like Derren has addressed some of the issues raised here in a blog posted about 20 mins ago. V interesting read.

  43. Written by Alan
    on 29/10/2012 at 5:28 pm

    Well, DB’s Q&A on his blog just satisfied me. Pretty solid reasoning from him answering all of the hyperbole. The man isn’t a politician or in a position of significant power, he is a showman. All the conspiracy stuff is just mental

  44. Written by Joel
    on 29/10/2012 at 5:30 pm
  45. Written by Matt
    on 29/10/2012 at 5:37 pm

    One way of avoiding the criticism, it seems to me at least, would be to NOT condense 48 hours into 2 hours! I’m sure DB is a big enough name now, and his team are experts enough, to have made this into a week long show. even 5 hours would be a farbetter representation than 2.

    It baffles me that it’s cut so short tbh, but I guess if there’s a DVD coming out….! Even so, it’s uneccessarily ‘squeezed’ IMO. Just upgrade the DVD to Blu-Ray 😉

  46. Written by Peter
    on 29/10/2012 at 5:39 pm

    It all seems that people don’t want to believe that someone can control them. They want to feel like they have free choice, so the moment someone looks like they have control, they denounce them as a charlatan. The “proof” is nothing but unrelated past events, and editing errors.

  47. Written by Hiltonite
    on 29/10/2012 at 5:51 pm

    I really hope these conspiracy theorists see some sense after reading the Q&A offered by Derren

  48. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:02 pm

    “Part of the pity of these rumours are that it’s always hurtful for the participants involved who have been through an emotional, transformative experience, are feeling really good about themselves and have been looking forward to the show going out. It’s horrible.”

    This is tantamount to saying that people mustn’t be overtly sceptical, lest we hurt the feelings of those involved. Sounds like something Derek Acorah might say.

    Still not buying it. Sorry, Dez.

  49. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:08 pm

    Well, he’s had plenty of time to write that. It’s very well written and does answer the issues raised but we’re still taking his word for it.

    Steve studied Drama and Performing Arts so has the ability to act, unlike the rest of us. I’m not sure that I believe he was just registered to be in an audience or be an extra but at least the profile was confirmed to be his.

    Derren says. “Misleading the public in a TV show is a big deal, and a massive lie like that wouldn’t be permitted by the channel. ”

    So what about the Russian Roulette show? We were lead to believe from Derren himself that the gun was loaded with a live bullet. It turned out that the bullet was in fact a blank. This was confirmed by the police. See: So was that not misleading? I didn’t really want to bring that up for fear of people suggesting that I’m “running out of ammo” (excuse the pun!) but his statement contradicts the Russian Roulette show.

    On the other hand, having read Derren’s Q&A’s, he has half convinced me that he is telling the truth but there is still something bothering me. It’s easy for anyone to cover their tracks in this manner and say what people want to hear.

    Also, some of the pro Derren comments on here come from some suspicious IP addresses which is very interesting.

    Btw, I don’t believe in conspiracy theories nor I am a sceptical person before someone accuses me of that 🙂

  50. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:13 pm

    btw, I knew that the guy from the noodle adverts was not Steve which is why I did not post the videos.

  51. Written by Hiltonite
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:34 pm

    What do you consider to be a “suspicious IP address”, haha?

    “Well, he’s had plenty of time to write that. It’s very well written and does answer the issues raised but we’re still taking his word for it.”

    I doubt he’s had plenty of time to write it seeing as he is a very busy person. Technically we are taking his word for it, but I’m wondering what proof do you want? What would we have to say or show you to ultimately change your opinion? Do you know the answer?

  52. Written by Hiltonite
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:34 pm

    *what would he

  53. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:38 pm

    Not just the Russian Roulette thing but as Jess and LadyV have already pointed out, Derren has, in the past, used stooges and, it appears, fibbed about doing so. Then he has the gall to suggest that sceptical rumours are hurtful to the participants.

  54. Written by Hiltonite
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:43 pm

    When has Derren used stooges in the past?

  55. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:44 pm

    “We,” Hiltonite? Freudian slip? 😉 You seem very eager to convince.

    I’m gonna shut up until I see the second ep, anyway,

  56. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:48 pm

    I guess someone’s word cannot be proof alone. For example, if Gary Glitter was arrested and then told the police that he’s innocent, based on his word alone, would they say, “Ok mate, you’re free to leave”? It’s not quite the same scenario but you get the point.

    What’s your thoughts on the Russian Roullete stunt given what Derren said about misleading the public?

    I cannot comment on suspicious IP addresses for legal reasons but they are not your average home based ISP IP’s.

    Derren Brown will always come up smelling of roses no matter what he says and good luck to him. He is a great entertainer but I am only half convinced.

  57. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:50 pm

    hahahaha yeah, I just noticed the freudian slip. Funny!

    I am now looking forward to part 2 🙂 Lets see what happens. I’ll be looking out for boom mics and clapperboards now lol

  58. Written by tballx
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:51 pm

    ADMIN EDIT: Yeah, we’ve seen this. I have also put it on the front page.

  59. Written by Cleaver girl
    on 29/10/2012 at 6:53 pm

    Well I have read it all. Derren hasn’t convinced me of anything. I still feel awfully disappointed by it all. Out of all those “THOUSANDS” of people, why chose someone with any kind of acting or drama class in their background. What a big mistake by his production team and researchers that didn’t spot this “profile” previous to all this coming out. Stinks of a big cover up to me. Surely there were others who were responsive who didn’t have drama skills in the background?
    The response is very well thought out, but I suppose he and his team had plenty of time to come up with something that would save slightly his reputation.I am sure he was fuming at the school boy errors. No doubt complacency crept in on this production. Derren’s explanation didn’t dismiss anything nor did to give any concrete evidence to dismiss what Mr. Grumpy has said. Derren’s explanation was so, as far I can tell, on the fence I am surprise the man hasn’t splinters on his a*se. I am sorry, but people RUN for their lives from danger, not lightly jog. I am not convinced of anything other than that situation is not how a “normal” person would react in a life or death situation.

    I enjoyed the show but will now only ever feel a sadness for the loss of such a good showman. I will never be able to look at what he does again in the same light.

  60. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 29/10/2012 at 7:02 pm

    Derren used Magda Rodriguez in “Trick of the Mind” and she was later revealed to be a professional TV actress and a member of the UK Actors Union. The programme disclaimer stated thus: “At no point are actors or stooges used in the show.”

  61. Written by TinHatty
    on 29/10/2012 at 7:12 pm

    “Plus of course the actors knew to control him if anything like that happened.”
    How? Hes a fully grown adult male. If he attacked from panic or terror how is an “actor” going to control him?

    “Steven had a profile page on a popular casting site where a lot of people of all ages put themselves up for extra work and crowd/audience stuff for TV shows (this was NOT how we found him but a lot of people sign up hoping to be on TV). He has since changed/tried to remove his profile as he was upset at the negative attention from people who took it to mean he was actually an actor.In fact Simon Dale, a director of Casting Call Pro (the website in question) has contacted me to verify that Steven created a profile but never completed it; didn’t upload any professional acting credits or headshots; and so his profile was never “live” on their system because he did not meet the joining criteria ”

    So he makes an acting profile that states his passion for acting and then gets “upset” when people presume it means he is an actor? Huh?

    “his profile was never “live” on their system”

    Yes it was live on their system. Thats how the public found it.

    “Part of the pity of these rumours are that it’s always hurtful for the participants involved who have been through an emotional, transformative experience, are feeling really good about themselves and have been looking forward to the show going out. It’s horrible.”

    Oh booo hoos. No threats have been made, no harm caused. Nice use of emotive language Derren knowing as well as he does that very few people wanna be Mr Bad Guy going around causing such extremes of distress as described here.

  62. Written by Hiltonite
    on 29/10/2012 at 7:32 pm

    Gutted about the ‘freudian slip’ ha! Soon as I posted and re-read my post I thought “ah damn that doesn’t help my cause”. But alas I can only wish I was involved in Derren Brown’s tv shows – that would be an epic job!

    The Russian Roulette thing was a very long time ago so I can’t remember the ins and outs but his recent shows are not like Russian Roulette. They differ in that the focus is on an unsuspecting individual (or individuals) who have their lives transformed via a series of inspirational or scary incidents. And he may have used an actress without knowledge in Trick of the Mind. I notice you’ve asked for my personal thoughts on the russian roulette. Well… I think I remember they confirmed that the bullets were blanks, but that shooting a blank at close range would still be devastating. The main outcome of Russian Roulette was that he knew which barrel the bullet was in. What I do know is that he didn’t use a stooge to pick the barrel, and even if the bullet was real he would still have avoided getting shot! It was hella entertaining.

    There are too many comments to quote and reply to individually. Grumpy Git, have you thought about implementing BB codes for quoting people more easily? 😀

    “I cannot comment on suspicious IP addresses for legal reasons but they are not your average home based ISP IP’s.”

    It’s not illegal to post someones IP address, nor is it illegal to discuss what is and isn’t “suspicious”…unless you are CIA or something and know something the rest of us don’t…!!!

  63. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 7:39 pm

    I would rather not post IP addresses as it can cause issues with privacy laws etc.

    The Russian Roulette was claimed to use a real bullet but it was a blank. Pretty open a shut case that one.
    The other one I didn’t know about until I googled it. It proves a point with regards to Derrens quote about never using actors despite the disclaimer on his shows.

    I really didn’t start this post to convince as many people as I could that Derren is a fraud or anything like that. I wouldn’t go as far to say anything that harsh. I started the post to expose something that looked fishy so that people could make their own minds up.

    It’s made a couple of national newspapers too.

    BB code. Erm, this blog has never had tons of comments so I never looked into it. In fact, the comments got all messed up this morning and I spent a couple of hours fixing the site so I don’t want to mess about with it too much for fear of wrecking it all again 🙂

  64. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 7:47 pm
  65. Written by Peter
    on 29/10/2012 at 7:47 pm

    No privacy issues if you post IP’s. In what way are they suspicious? Do they start in 74.? Or something else?

  66. Written by Hiltonite
    on 29/10/2012 at 7:48 pm

    RE: the actress in Trick of the Mind…
    It doesnt PROVE a point mate. Derren might have used the actress in “Trick of the Mind” without knowing? And even if he knew she was an actress, it could be that she wasn’t acting on his show. Therefore his disclaimer – that stooges aren’t involved – still holds true.

    Also haha I’m not asking you to post IP addresses I’m just curious about what is suspicious about them? I run dozens of websites myself y’see…

  67. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 7:53 pm

    Ok IP’s from media and PR companies. Not saying any more than that.

  68. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 7:55 pm

    He should have know if she was an actress. She even has a IMDB profile. We wouldn’t know if she was acting or not but that’s not the point. You could use millions of other people who are not in the acting game.

  69. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 8:13 pm

    Anyone noticed this Twitter account?

    Seems a bit strange. It’s an old account with a random username but with Steve’s full name on it.

    A loaned or fake account? This lad is full of surprises lol Why would this account suddenly start posting as him? Surely he would not be allowed to post in Q&A hashtags publically before the show concludes?

    It’s probably a fake account.

  70. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 29/10/2012 at 8:17 pm

    It was obviously just a coincidence, Mr. Grumpy… 😉

  71. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 29/10/2012 at 8:20 pm

    (Magda Rodriguez, I mean)

    But who are we to question things? That could start rumours, and rumours are hurtful.

  72. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 8:24 pm

    lol Yeah. We don’t want to make anyone cry.

    I am keeping a close eye on that Twitter account. I think it’s someone out just to have a laugh. Some of his Tweets are a little insulting to people 🙂 No way it’s him.

    Steve Brosnan ‏@stormtrooperman
    @MickSwift Ha ha ha! What a grade A, first class cunt you are.

    Looking at his performance I would say that he’s a little out of character… Or is he? 😉

  73. Written by anpanman
    on 29/10/2012 at 9:32 pm
  74. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 9:44 pm

    We knew they were not the same person. Another site posted the adverts and it went viral. They look similar but are quite clearly two different people.

    Derren is really going out of his way to make his point eh? lol

    The video is actually pointless as it doesn’t prove a thing. Just because people say something, it doesn’t make it true. Derren should know that 🙂

  75. Written by derrenbrownexposed
    on 29/10/2012 at 9:57 pm

    Yep, like 5 mins after I posted that clip it was debunked.

    Strange that in his blog Derren has focused on this as the karl greenwood mistake as his main defense and failed to address a lot of the stronger evidence.

  76. Written by Stuart
    on 29/10/2012 at 10:14 pm

    re the Adam Buxton photo. This was filmed in Chalfont St Giles (the next village along from Chalfont St Peter, where Steve Brosnan lives) on 13th May 2010. This is what was in the village email newsletter that week:

    “SAME TIME NEXT WEEK” is a brand new pilot commissioned by BBC2 and produced by Feelgood Fiction Ltd. It is a fictional weekly chat show held in the village hall and hosted by local husband and wife team, Celia and Fred Jesson (played by Joanna Neary and Al Kerr), with the help of retired, and rather embittered, local actor, Gerard Jeremy (played by Adam Buxton).

    We are filming some exterior scenes at the Memorial Hall in Chalfont St Giles on Thursday 13th May, and we are looking for local people who would be prepared to be filmed arriving at the Hall as if they are coming to see the show. We would aim to shoot between 7 – 7.30 pm approximately, and would love to have as many people as possible, of all ages, come along to take part.

    Please contact us at if you would like to know more – or just turn up!

    We can’t offer any payment if you do come along but we do have some tickets see the show being recorded at the BBC Television Centre on the 19th May 2010.

  77. Written by mattym
    on 29/10/2012 at 10:19 pm
  78. Written by Peter
    on 29/10/2012 at 10:19 pm

    ” Just because people say something, it doesn’t make it true.”

    So, you’re neither grumpy nor middle aged then, seeing as I don’t believe what you have said……

    If we can’t trust what people say, then why trust anything?

  79. Written by forrester666
    on 29/10/2012 at 10:44 pm

    Steve and Karl side by side..

  80. Written by johnny
    on 29/10/2012 at 10:59 pm

    What’s the stronger evidence. Because there is jack shit on your blog

  81. Written by mattty
    on 29/10/2012 at 11:06 pm

    It’s pretty amusing that you are trying to prove that an illusionist/magician is lying to us. That’s what they do! It’s trickery! What’s next? proof that he didn’t walk through the great wall of China or saw himself up!

  82. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 29/10/2012 at 11:41 pm

    Just because Derren and Steve say what you already believe makes it proof? He was bound to say what he said. The noodle advert was always a non starter. That did not originate here.

    Neither doubters or Derren Brown can be proved right. That’s just the way it is.

    Look at Derrens history, look up previous cases.

    There is no smoke without fire and no bullet hole without a bullet 🙂

  83. Written by Hiltonite
    on 30/10/2012 at 12:37 am

    Grumpy, in Derren’s defense he is probably not quick enough to keep up with all of the conspiracy theories. It probably took him a day or two to get Steve and Karl in the same room! The fact that this was debunked already doesn’t make his video useless. What he has done is shown you more footage of Steve, as a human, in real life, and it all seems very genuine to me. What about you? Still stubborn?

  84. Written by Hiltonite
    on 30/10/2012 at 12:44 am

    “For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice.” Joseph Dunninger

  85. Written by notconvinced
    on 30/10/2012 at 1:11 am

    why were there two half drunk bottles of water under his seat in the first place?

  86. Written by Harry Houdini
    on 30/10/2012 at 2:11 am

    I am a retired mentalist.I have warned Derrens people many times.I have Never used stooges,though some effects need them.I have stayed clear.So how do you get a stooge on stage with frizbee throwing? you carnt with one person.Its too fishy.You can do it this way.Throw several frizbees ask whoever catches it to come up on stage and throw it again.That person then comes up on stage too.However if your throwing so many frizbees can you honestly say you remember how many times the performer has thrown .Some people will have a frizbee some will not.Stooges will make there way on to stage with the others.usually from aisles or even the way out/toilette areas.The stooge will be the person who makes the effect work.
    Anyone whos been picked that wasnt a stooge will say the effect worked i was involved and i wasnt a stooge.Of course not you the innocent the stooge made it work.Goose moose apple guice IE enigma.was gone many many years ago in the 80s by a mentalist called David Berglas google him.If Derren doesnt stop hudwinking the public i will reveal all.Derren your coin in the hand childs play.That is ambiguous to most nut means a lot in magic.Stop using stooges Derren last warning.

  87. Written by Harry Houdini
    on 30/10/2012 at 2:14 am

    That is ambiguous to most but means a lot in magic,sorry for the typo.

  88. Written by Tony
    on 30/10/2012 at 8:28 am

    Interesting read on here so far. but here’s my two cent
    1. The zugo advert. Its not him. Please move on.
    2. Ccp account. It seems to me that a troll have created it. Its been changed many times and it is now Koala bear. com on! Could even be DB trolling us 🙂
    3. There is editing errors in the show. no doubt about it. I think a lot of people think its meant to be a continuous shot so its meant to broadcast the show in this continuous way. (some poor guy even created a site to prove this.) Please don’t forget it’s got to squeeze into two of an hour long episode and it sure took longer then that to shoot.
    4. Not swearing was a decent point. I certainly would, hell of a lot if i’m honest. But it doesn’t mean every man would react the same way.
    5. Weapons/ fighting instinct. I think a lot of people have imagined a zombie apocalypse in their head or talked to their friends before. what they will use, how they would fight and few other epic plans to survive. I have too!! for fun ofcos 🙂 I can’t honestly say that anyone been in a similar situation apart from this poor fella. instead of carrying out the epic plans and take out zombies like in action movies. 99% of us would probably just run and try to seek a safe zone and seek contact which he did. Unless its a gun and you are pretty good at it, What good is a table leg against a zombie which is highly contiguous. would you even risk even getting close to it when you think about it properly?
    6. Steven has acted before? He probably has! It is exactly the sort of person that would apply for a show like this. There isn’t even a need to hide it. nor the producer tried to. I would personally hire somebody better then steven as an actor if that was so called acting.
    7.The way he got hypnos on the bus. My friend went to walk on coal fire for charity and there was this hypnotist their that helped them do it. He briefed them of what he’s going to do and how you will feel beforehand. And he only hovered his hand over his eyes for a brief moment 2-3secs max and slide downwards and then he walked through it. later my friend told me he thought he was walking on snow… and i sure as hell he wasn’t in a calm state when he queued up behind other walkers.

    A lot of people are thinking logicly of what you would have done in his situation. but you haven’t been in it nor anybody that i know of. how do you judge whats real reaction and whats acting of a person that is not even you?

    what really gets me is that how would you not know when your family that you lived with all your live is planning something this big? Any normal person would pick up on your family actions/reactions straight away. even just a little bit and would ask something like. you guys are acting weird or are you hiding something from me?
    Anyways I’m still undecided whether this show is fake or not. Gonna enjoy and wait til second part then judge for myself. It won’t enlarge my epeen if i spotted it’s fake early nor hurt my feelings if i was the last person to know its fake. Will probably just go mehh.. thought it was a good show.
    English isn’t my first language, please excuse the grammar or spelling.

  89. Written by Millz
    on 30/10/2012 at 9:46 am


    “For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice.” Joseph Dunninger

    I think that sums it up perfectly. Complete waste of time having this debate really because no matter how convincing DB’s explanation is, unless people are presented with 100% definitive proof they’ll refuse to believe.

    The point is he makes a living from using a certain amount of deceit in his acts, that’s what illusionists do for God sake…….

    Magician: “I made the elephant disappear into thin air!”

    Audience: “Really?? How did you do that?”

    Magician: “Magic”

    Audience: “Wow. Amazing.”

    But then when the audience figure out that he didn’t actually make it disappear and it’s back stage do they chastise him for it and call him a con artist?!

    All I’ll say is, if you don’t like DB, don’t believe him, or think he’s a con artist due to some of the tactics he used on previous shows…………… DON’T WATCH HIS FRIGGIN’ SHOWS!!!

  90. Written by Millz
    on 30/10/2012 at 9:59 am

    One last thing for the record:

    When people talk about the russian roulette not being a “real” bullet, have a look into the damage a “blank” can do when held against the temple and fired.

    Yes Derren mislead people about the bullet, but ultimately the damage that the blank could have caused was just as real.

    In reality though he was NEVER going to fire it against his head, that’s the illusion, and in all fairness to him he carried it out perfectly. It’s just sad that people grasp on to the small details of the illusion and hold it against him.

  91. Written by Derren Brown is NOT a fake.
    on 30/10/2012 at 10:23 am

    Does that answer your petty arguments that he’s supposibly a “fake”?

  92. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 10:27 am

    I know that a blank can cause just as much damage at point blank range but why claim that is was a real bullet? We all know it’s trickery and great entertainment but misleading people and lying are two different things.

    I just cannot get my head around how people take what he said on the video as gospel. The Derren, Steve and Karl video doesn’t really mean a thing. It could be scripted / improvised, it really doesn’t prove anything. He is simply telling the people on the fence what they want to hear. He could be telling the truth, he may not be. Who knows?

    The ratio of believers vs sceptics is probably ridiculous. 10,000 / 1 (wild and probably wrong estimate!) so sceptics will always be outnumbered and get a hard time.

    To keep the debate balanced I am going to post the video response on the front page.

    Anyway, I am going to try and keep a more open mind and wait for part 2. Like I said before, I am only half convinced by Derren’s responses.

  93. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 10:30 am

    “Does that answer your petty arguments that he’s supposibly a “fake”?”

    No, as pointed out above. Can we please not make this personal or defensive and keep it friendly? It’s called debate.

  94. Written by Millz
    on 30/10/2012 at 10:57 am

    “We all know it’s trickery and great entertainment but misleading people and lying are two different things.”

    So is an illusionist misleading people or lying when he says the elephant disappeared?

    Derren will have claimed the bullet is real for drama purposes. It’s has much more effect if he’s using a “real bullet” rather than a blank that could kill him. It’s not rocket science why he made those claims because if he openly said it was a blank and went on to explain the damage the blank could do, there’d still be people who would question why he made that decision which would de-value the illusion.

    With this particular experiment, if the guy turns out to be an actor then it’s an outright lie by Derren…….. which is exactly why he won’t/can’t be an actor.

    There’s too much at risk for him to use an actor. I pay to see his live show each year, but if he cheapens his act to the point of using an actor then I won’t trust his future shows and therefore won’t pay to go and see him……… and I think a lot of people would feel the same. Which begs the question…….. would he really risk the opinion of fans such as myself and the revenue bring to him by using an actor when it really isn’t necessary?

  95. Written by A Collins
    on 30/10/2012 at 11:18 am

    2 links from DB himself which you may wanna watch and read:

    Hopefully prove all these conspiracies wrong 🙂

  96. Written by Jason Andreoli
    on 30/10/2012 at 11:46 am

    Hmm, shall we define illusionist, someone who makes the impossible appear possible by creating an illusion! An illusion is something that appears real but isn’t. In other words Illusionists are professional Liars or kidologists if you prefer. If they told the truth they would have no act.

    If you want to enjoy the illusion, don’t bother trying to poke too many holes in it, just enjoy it. If you want to know how it’s done then work it out but don’t get all huffy when you twig on!

  97. Written by derrenbrownexposed
    on 30/10/2012 at 1:44 pm

    Just found out that Steve might have leaked the Apocalypse storyline on twitter before it was supposedly filmed, check it out:


  98. Written by Hiltonite
    on 30/10/2012 at 2:07 pm


  99. Written by Jonathan
    on 30/10/2012 at 2:18 pm

    Some facts worth noting that haven’t really been mentioned. The following are facts, not speculation:

    1. Derren was rumbled for using camera tricks in the lottery prediction.
    Magicians and mindreaders generally frown heavily on stooges and camera tricks as neither are classed as genuine techniques. By using camera tricks here Derren has show he will do anything to achieve his end goal.

    2. Derren Brown’s producer is Anthony Owen who also produced the Real Hustle which got rumbled for using actors to fake its stunts.

    3. Derren’s shows use plenty of editing techniques, off-camera pre-show and showing things out of sequence. He doesn’t play fair and never has.

    Derren’s response to the accusations of foul play here are heartfelt and sincere. It’s probably safe to say that Steven Brosnan is not an actor. However, did the Apocalypse happen the way it was portrayed on TV? Given Derren’s previous form and the high-risk nature of the stunt, I would say categorically not.

  100. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 2:21 pm

    Where did you get that screenshot? Looks photoshopped. It’s not an actual Twitter screenshot.

  101. Written by derrenbrownexposed
    on 30/10/2012 at 2:27 pm
  102. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 2:48 pm

    When was Apocalypse filmed?

  103. Written by derrenbrownexposed
    on 30/10/2012 at 3:00 pm

    The actual meteor strike was supposedly on Stevens birthday, September 1st

  104. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 3:08 pm

    Was the actual stunt (the day of the meteor strike) filmed after 17th August?

  105. Written by derrenbrownexposed
    on 30/10/2012 at 3:13 pm

    Well, thats what the program makes out. Steven was apparently led to believe that he was going to the fake Killers concert on his birthday

  106. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 3:24 pm

    Ok, that’s good enough for me. I’ll post it up.

  107. Written by derrenbrownexposed
    on 30/10/2012 at 3:26 pm

    Cool, cheers grumpy!

  108. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 3:32 pm

    That’s a strange one eh? I have never seen that site before but hey, it’s legit. Nice find.

  109. Written by derrenbrownexposed
    on 30/10/2012 at 3:35 pm

    Must be a coincidence 😉

    There were also a few tweets alluding to him being a treading whilst he was supposed to be being filmed at home…..

  110. Written by Millz
    on 30/10/2012 at 3:45 pm

    Jonathon, are those “facts” really worth mentioning?

    The camera trick was a low for DB in my opinion, but that has nothing to do with stooges or any part of this really. Yes it shows Derren will stoop to using cheap tricks, but stooges can blab information to the media, cheap carema tricks can’t.

    As for the real hustle bit……. seriously?! So because a producer is known to use a techinque on one particular show that means he’s going to use the same technique on a completely different show?

    Lastly, you say Derren doesn’t play fair (firstly that’s your opinion, not fact). Of course he doesn’t play fair, he’s an illusionist. How many illusionists play fair? They all use tactics and tricks to pull off their stunts…… if they didn’t they’d be a pretty useless illusionist!

    I’ve gotta ask, what the hell are you’re talking about when you ask did it happen the way it was portrayed? Of course it didn’t, it was recorded over 48 hours and edited into a show lasting less than 2 hours to provide a form of entertainment.

  111. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 3:55 pm

    lol I love the way “Proving” is in quotes. The twitter post (pic: ) is bugging me.

  112. Written by Millz
    on 30/10/2012 at 4:00 pm

    The day of the meteor strike was the day before Stevens birthday, so it would have been August 31st. The Reading Festival was 24-26 August.

    Are you suggesting he’s unable to make the 30 mile trip to be there after work?

  113. Written by derrenbrownexposed
    on 30/10/2012 at 4:07 pm

    Regardless of when the strike was the ‘clicking heels’ tweet was on the 17th, long before he’d been through the apocalypse experience.

    Admittedly though the reading thing is less concrete 🙂

  114. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 4:22 pm

    I really cannot think how they could talk their way out of that?!?!

  115. Written by Millz
    on 30/10/2012 at 4:22 pm

    ……..and the ‘clicking heels’ tweet is concrete?!

  116. Written by Millz
    on 30/10/2012 at 4:23 pm


  117. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 4:26 pm

    Millz… You probably know that quote is from the Wizard of Oz. Also a hashtag – #theresnoplacelikehome Did you read the tweet?

    Well if I ever get stuck whilst running I can always click my heels together 3 times #TheresNoPlaceLikeHome – 2012-08-17 17:53:26


  118. Written by Millz
    on 30/10/2012 at 4:39 pm

    I know the quote, and I understand what you’re insinuating, what I don’t understand is how you class this as concrete.

    Why on earth would he tweet this 2 weeks before it all kicks off. Not only would it put the whole show in jeopardy (and the part he applied for), it would obviously let everyone connected to him know that it’s all fake……… and all those people would then tell more people…….. who would then tell even more people…….. and so on and so forth. Which would make the whole thing a completely farsical.

    Sure it can be easily linked to DB but common sense would suggest that this isn’t the case. Still, can’t really discredited it complete. I suppose the ONLY real way to pass judgement is to watch Friday’s episode and decide from there.

  119. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 4:48 pm

    Yes, it would be really stupid to say such a thing on Twitter but it’s one hell of a coincidence.
    The Twitter profile is private, we don’t know how many or how few people are following him.

    I have not said that’s it’s concrete but you have to admit that it’s very close to the show. “Running” and Wizard of Oz quotes?

  120. Written by Millz
    on 30/10/2012 at 4:59 pm

    @Derrenbrownexposed seemed to think it was concrete, although considering he has a website dedicated to bringing DB down I think he gets over excited over anything that might help him achieve his goal.

    Yeah it doesn’t sound the best, and in all fairness compared to the rest of the “evidence” against DB this probably holds to most significance.

    Still, doesn’t mean he’s actor, could just mean he was onto them and he played along with it all. The only thing that bothered me was the cameras in the house…… were they that well hidden, and is he that oblivious to everything not to spot them, especially considering he looked everywhere for his phone.

    I’m 100% he’s not acting, can’t say the same though to whether he knows what’s going on or not though. Will have to wait until Friday to see how it all goes.

  121. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 5:05 pm

    If he played along with it, would that not be just as bad? It would mean that he knew what was going to happen, also to be sure not to assault anyone, he would be able to prepare what he says next etc It was all a little unnatural in my opinion.

    I also thought about him finding camera whilst looking for his mobile. If you watch it back some of the cameras were not so well hidden as you see the crew plant them. They were out of plain view but placed inside furnishings and boxes etc as I seem to recall.

  122. Written by Lissi
    on 30/10/2012 at 7:12 pm

    Re. the Wizard of Oz tweet, him saying that would make sense to me – To get this kind of thing to work, Derren would have had to spend time with Steve before hand (when they were interviewing him with all the rest?) setting up hypnotic triggers etc, and as the show is based around the Wizard of Oz theme, it’s probably what was used for the triggers. So subconsciously, he’d probably make a comment like this as it was “in the back of his mind”.

    I’m not sure what the truth behind all this is and wouldn’t be surprised at all if there was a twist at the end, but if there isn’t then I still found the first show interesting and am looking forward to the second – though I found it quite uncomfortable to watch at times, and I’d almost be happy to find out he was an actor, because going through that must have been terrifying / heartbreaking! At least he seems OK now… Hope you know what you’re doing Derren 😛

  123. Written by Jonathan
    on 30/10/2012 at 7:23 pm

    Millz –

    “The camera trick was a low for DB in my opinion, but that has nothing to do with stooges or any part of this really. Yes it shows Derren will stoop to using cheap tricks, but stooges can blab information to the media, cheap carema tricks can’t.”

    Camera tricks and stooges are viewed with the same contempt by magicians (which, lest we not forget – Derren is one). By using camera tricks it shows that he is prepared to go to any means. The people carrying out the camera trick have inside knowledge, as would a stooge or someone complicit in a stunt. There are ways of keeping people quiet. Money, non-disclosure agreements etc.

    “As for the real hustle bit……. seriously?! So because a producer is known to use a techinque on one particular show that means he’s going to use the same technique on a completely different show?”
    Yes, it shows he has previous form.

    “Lastly, you say Derren doesn’t play fair (firstly that’s your opinion, not fact). Of course he doesn’t play fair, he’s an illusionist. How many illusionists play fair? They all use tactics and tricks to pull off their stunts…… if they didn’t they’d be a pretty useless illusionist!”
    It’s fact. TV trickery (edits, extensive pre-show and off-camera work) are different to conventional magic techniques. DB uses both.

    “I’ve gotta ask, what the hell are you’re talking about when you ask did it happen the way it was portrayed? Of course it didn’t, it was recorded over 48 hours and edited into a show lasting less than 2 hours to provide a form of entertainment.”

    I mean that DB has extensively showed things on TV that weren’t really what happened, and that is beyond just regular editing. It is very likely the case here.

  124. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 30/10/2012 at 7:28 pm

    In the *private* Twitter post he mentions running (away from zombies?). Steve was told that he failed the audition. Why would Derren “hypnotise” someone that failed the audition? Wouldn’t he need to hypnotise everyone that failed as not to cause suspicion?

    I dunno, there seems to be an answer for everything lol I could post secret footage of them rehearsing the hospital scene and someone would be able to explain it. :/

  125. Written by Jonathan
    on 30/10/2012 at 7:31 pm

    An example of dubious technique by Derren.
    At 1:05 there is a cut where a few minutes of vital procedure is cut out where the guy is basically given a few names he can choose from. Probably 3 or 4. This is cut out to make it look like he has a choice of literally anybody. If you don’t believe me, ask yourself why there is nothing like this in any of his stage shows. This is a made for TV edited trick where the audience don’t see the full picture. Apply this same idea to EVERYTHING Derren does.

  126. Written by Lissi
    on 30/10/2012 at 7:52 pm

    “In the *private* Twitter post he mentions running (away from zombies?). Steve was told that he failed the audition. Why would Derren “hypnotise” someone that failed the audition? Wouldn’t he need to hypnotise everyone that failed as not to cause suspicion?

    I dunno, there seems to be an answer for everything lol I could post secret footage of them rehearsing the hospital scene and someone would be able to explain it. :/”

    He DID hypnotise everyone invited to the “audition” – He’s shown the process before and it’s usually at *least* a days worth of working out who’s suggestible etc. Probably more than that for the few that got through to later rounds. I imagine all those who turned up to it were loaded with Wizard of Oz triggers, as Derren would already have had most of the actual show’s plot worked out.

    I’m not saying it wasn’t faked (it crossed my mind while watching the first show as a few parts did feel like Steve was acting – but then other parts looked totally genuine), but the tweet actually sways me more towards the fact that Steve had been predisposed to hypnotic triggers, as if he was keeping hush hush then he wouldn’t have been so blatent – where as if it was in his mind subconciously, it’s not surprising he made the reference.

    Kind of makes it more exciting now to watch this weeks show! Thanks for the discussion 🙂

  127. Written by minicam
    on 31/10/2012 at 9:02 am

    “Still, doesn’t mean he’s actor, could just mean he was onto them and he played along with it all. The only thing that bothered me was the cameras in the house…… were they that well hidden, and is he that oblivious to everything not to spot them, especially considering he looked everywhere for his phone.”

    I hid some of the cameras, and to be honest, they were well hidden enough not to be spotted. Still, whenever we do this sort of work, there are always those who think the subject must have been in on it as people find it hard to believe that this sort of thing can be pulled off. Admittedly it is harder to do when it is in the subjects own home!

    I used to get annoyed by comments like this but now I tend to take it as a compliment that shows how good the results we can achieve actually are.

  128. Written by Millz
    on 31/10/2012 at 10:02 am


    You can’t blame people for questioning how well hidden they were. I think most people would like to believe that if 15 cameras were secretly hidden in their home they’d be able to spot some of them.

  129. Written by minicam
    on 31/10/2012 at 10:28 am


    I don’t blame them at all. When I first started in this line of work some I was amazed at how easy it can be to hide cameras without people noticing. This is especially true for scenes such as the one in the cafe, but with a bit of effort it can be done pretty much anywhere. Also a maximum of 7 were used at one time.

    As I said in a previous post, I’m sure episode 2 will convince most as to the authenticity, but of course, there will always be some who will remain unconvinced.

  130. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 31/10/2012 at 11:26 am

    Tweet from Derren
    Derren Brown ‏@DerrenBrown
    Delighted to see Mail, Independent, BBC, Star, Metro & others putting the record straight today. Annoying few days. Ep 2 on Friday!

    Derren should be able to cope with scrutiny. He has dished some out himself in the past.

    I am watching this again right now. Good programme.

  131. Written by Si Hall
    on 31/10/2012 at 9:25 pm

    I can absolutely confirm that the actor in the Zugo’s Human Microwave ads that sponsor Friends is Karl Greenwood and not Stephen.

    I Art Directed and co-wrote the ads.

    He does bear a decent likeness though in all fairness.

  132. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 31/10/2012 at 9:33 pm

    Yeah, we know that. This site never claimed that it was Steve.

  133. Written by Lark Woodblack
    on 01/11/2012 at 9:04 pm

    If Steve was under the impression that he had failed the audition, would that not have rendered his consent form null/void?

  134. Written by Mikey
    on 01/11/2012 at 9:14 pm

    Not at all but that’s not the point. I am sure that everyone that made is that far were under the same NDA.

  135. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 02/11/2012 at 6:13 pm

    Looking forward to part 2 then it’s make your mind up time for me 🙂 Hopefully I shall be having a big slice of humble pie afterwards.

  136. Written by Jeremy
    on 02/11/2012 at 9:32 pm
  137. Written by Steve
    on 02/11/2012 at 9:49 pm

    When I saw Derren Brown’s interview with Richard Dawkin’s he won me over.
    Now, it’s all gone.
    What sort of idiot does he think I am?
    What sort of idiot take this ridiculous pretense seriously?
    How uneducated and gullible do you have to be to watch this trollop and get duped?
    Bloody insult to anyone with any intelligence.
    I wont even bother to detail the numerous flaws, but unloading my contempt here is therapeutic.
    The only ending that will restore any respect is one where he calls all those who have responded positively to this fiasco an ASS !!!

  138. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 02/11/2012 at 10:05 pm

    Jeremy, we have seen the video. It doesn’t really prove anything just because he denies the accusations.

  139. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 02/11/2012 at 10:06 pm

    +1 Steve. I feel even more sceptical than I did before. Nah…

  140. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 02/11/2012 at 10:35 pm

    Can we get an e-mail to Donald? Because I’m pretty sure it’s not possible to have someone collapse in a hypnotic trance after saying a few words to them over an iPhone. Then he walked him to bed! F*cking lol

    9/10 for the sentiment, 10/10 for the bollocks.

  141. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 02/11/2012 at 10:43 pm

    I thought the Wizard of Oz references would have been a bit more prominent in part 2. I looked like they were trying to push this in part 1 with visuals. I realise that the “heart”, “brain” and “courage” was part of the plot but I still do not understand why Steve posted Wizard of Oz references on his Twitter account (on the 17th August) before the Apocalypse started (31st August – 2nd September).

    It makes no sense. Damn, I so wanted to believe.

  142. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 02/11/2012 at 10:44 pm

    Brad, Donald may well come back and post his thoughts on this.

  143. Written by poppy W
    on 02/11/2012 at 11:00 pm

    I was thinking that Derren Brown always does these psychological analysis’ to see if he was alright for the job. Maybe just because he may be an actor doesn’t mean it was staged. Maybe Derren thought it would be best that he used an actor because he may be able to believe it and cope better being in the middle of the action. If he was acting then that’s some pretty good acting for an apparently non unprofessional actor.

  144. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 02/11/2012 at 11:16 pm

    I think now the question is more about it being staged (Steven being in on it and playing along) than him being an actor. There was not huge amounts of emotion considering what was going on around him. He was almost too relaxed in parts.
    What about the end scene where Steve and the girl walked away. If that was you, would you not be constantly turning your head and looking around you to make sure no zombies were sneaking up on you? Part 2 raised more issues for me than part 1 did. Shame.

    I could go on and on and on but I wont. People can make their own minds up.

    Before anyone calls me a hater… I am not, I am just disappointed. I think I will just stick to the live shows which are a different class.

  145. Written by Peter
    on 02/11/2012 at 11:27 pm

    The wizard of Oz references were kind of a reward theme, that meaning if you spotted it you are ever so slightly more intelligent than those who didn’t. The resolve of the theme was Steve waking up after a “dream” , like Dorothy.

    The reactions Steve had, I feel, were pretty much what was expected. Using an Infection Apocalypse scenario was a good plan, seeing as there are countless zombie apocalypse themed movies, TV shows and games around this year.

    I am of the opinion that it was a real mind experiment, and that Steve was not an actor. Yes, there are things that don’t fully add up, but those are exceedingly intricate plot details. Any continuity errors I spotted were all editing errors: like the time stamp on screen saying 15:08, then jumping back to 14:11.

    Yes, there are many strong arguments for the point of view of it being staged, and that many of Derrens previous experiments were staged, and I accept them. But I don’t see why Derren would consciously be so sloppy as to leave so many apparently obvious gaffs in the show.

    That’s my piece. Reply if and how you want.

    Also, I have spent a lot of time on this site Grumpy, and I must say I like much of the content on here. Keep up the good work.

  146. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 02/11/2012 at 11:44 pm

    Cheers Peter, I guess we’ll never know the truth. I found it entertaining but I was expecting more.

    I know Derren has been on this site and read what we’ve all had to say. I just want him to know that this was not a personal witch hunt. We’re entitled to opinions and question things that don’t ring true. If myself and like-minded people are all wrong then I can understand his anger and disappointment at websites questioning him. He does have form though if you Google previous shows. I know he’s not “magic”, he’s an illusionist and a very good one at that but massive projects like this are always going to attract negative attention as well as positive. The die hard fans (which I was one) can never have a bad word said about him and they will defend him to the end, and quite aggressively sometimes!

    There has been quite a bit of negative feedback on Derren’s own Twitter feed, more than I expected to be honest.

    People can make up their own minds. I have tried to keep things balanced on the frontpage by posting links to Derrens Q&A’s and his video response.

  147. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 02/11/2012 at 11:46 pm

    The first part was problematic, the second part had more holes in it than a tramp’s underpants. I was half-expecting Magda Rodriguez to pop up at one point.

    I’m still laughing to myself about the bit where Steve picked up the phone, collapsed like a 14-year-old at a school disco after one too many Carlsbergs, then lumbered to bed with Derren.

  148. Written by Peter
    on 03/11/2012 at 12:09 am

    I must admit, that bit was hilarious 🙂

  149. Written by sarcastic_me
    on 03/11/2012 at 12:16 am

    So let me get this straight – some of you think

    1) Steve Brosnan just happened to fancy himself as an actor, managed to accidently get on a BBC set and get a photo, and despite there being public pictures of him wearing suits and looking happy and affluent, he is actually a down and out. So its just an accident that he has links to acting.

    2) Magda Rodriguez, the the new-age believer from te “trick of the mind show” is now known to be a bafta award winning actress. But she was probably jsut an actress that was susceptible.

    3) A volunteer on another show is now Derrens writer.

    WOW, Derren has a lot of coincidences there with actors.

  150. Written by sarcastic_me
    on 03/11/2012 at 12:18 am

    Using actors doesnt make you an illusionist – it makes you an employer #disappointed

  151. Written by simonp
    on 03/11/2012 at 12:38 am

    very disappointing 2nd part. predictable and unrealistic. could have been so much more interesting without those lame zombies.

  152. Written by Dave
    on 03/11/2012 at 12:35 pm

    Thanks grumpy for this opportunity to chip in.

    I’ve done a fair bit of playing and re-playing various bits of both episodes, and thought I’d seen several cases where there would have to have been a camera visible to Steve. But on closer examination, I have to admit they could have been hidden. Seems odd that there’s camera shake in some fairly close shots though, but that could be added later for effect I suppose.

    As per some of Derren’s other shows, there’s no way anyone can say how they’d react in this situation. What I think though is that no matter how many “tests” they’d done on him prior to the event, there’s no way they could guarantee the safety of him and those near to him, if he truly believed what was going on to be real – the only way to see how you’d react to such stress would be to experience it fully aware.

    So what I think is that he was in a semi-hypnotic state all through the shows anyway, and that might explain why his reactions fitted so well with what Derren wanted out of the show. It wouldn’t have looked good if he’d left the girl and run off, would it? And there were quite a few bits where he could have gone awol in that way. Also several time I noticed some very convenient reactions (show-wise) from him just after various prompts by the others, and it all seemed so wooden, that I could quite believe some pre-programming going on around certain phrases. eg suggestions like “when you hear her say ‘who’s in charge now?’ you’ll realise that you are”. Maybe the whole thing was run under the suggestion that “you’ll know that you’re safe, and you won’t hurt anyone, but you’ll act as if it’s real”. Might that be possible for a highly-suggestible subject? And would that make the show “fake”?

    I think the end sums it up though, with the zombie coming into frame at their chat “28 days later” – which as it’s a joke confirms it’s just entertainment and not to be taken seriously. Which prompts my last beef with the whole thing – that Derren is turning his excellent and very watchable talents towards some kind of cod “personal development” rubbish. I totally agree with the philosophy at the start, that it’s so easy to take all you’ve got for granted, and we should consider losing everything and everyone, in our minds eye, to see their true value – but it demeans this truth to then present this kind of rubbish to back it up! Still, at least it provided employment for some, and entertainment
    for others.

    If only it would happen to me, so I could see the light and stop wasting my life away watching and writing this drivel – take note, grumpy! 😉

  153. Written by Steve
    on 03/11/2012 at 1:27 pm

    Dear Grumpy Git,

    I’m back again to say thanks for giving me somewhere to vent my frustration at all this tosh and the buffoons that seem to have been sucked in by it.

    This sort of “television” is replacing the irrationality of religion and it is annoying me to think that we all have an equal say in the way we run our world regardless of our ability to discern fact from fiction?
    In contrast however, I am heartened by responses from those who have the ability to see through it all.

    The flaws and are numerous, let alone the moral and ethical blocks that exist outside the evidence of fakery.

    If I would ask only just one thing of those who chirp here in defending this “show” as truth, it would be to watch all of this from the perspective of the camera man, try to imagine where he would be, and then you might start to realize this whole fiasco was staged?

    If however, you believe in the cringe-worthy Hollywood effects and “zombies” then you are beyond hope.

    – Even Grumpier Git 🙂

  154. Written by R
    on 03/11/2012 at 4:18 pm

    Has Derren ever got upset and insisted people were wrong about explanations of his tricks before? E.g. has he ever insisted no camera trick was used in the lottery show or that that casino was real or even that his tricks are really mostly psychology and not just magic tricks? I don’t remember him trying to put anyone right on any of those. Maybe because those things are true and you wouldn’t particularly want to draw attention to those explanations by publicly denying them. So why did he draw attention to the whole ‘actor’ explanation if that was also true?

  155. Written by Jonathan
    on 03/11/2012 at 4:55 pm

    No, Derren has never really got that uptight before. It leads me to believe that Steven wasn’t an actor at all. It’s the old theory that if you accuse a professional burglar of breaking into a house he didn’t, he will fight it to the death.

    I think overall this was the worst thing that Derren has ever done on television. Truly awful.

  156. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 03/11/2012 at 5:38 pm

    I think the fact that Derren went out of his way to try and prove that the accusations were unfounded suggests that something is not quite right here. With this being his biggest project to date he’s going to be very defensive. Right so, it cost an arm and a leg and his integrity is at stake.

    I did notice that at the beginning of part 2 he said that Steve was not an actor. I think this may have been added to convince people against the allegations. It would have been easy enough to film and add the layered effects on top of it (crackly transmission, picture breakup etc).

    I do admit that this is, in my opinion, a big let down. There are issues with many scenes and the “acting”. Leona or “Katie” or “Jordan” (notice the Katie Price theme? haha) was atrocious. Steve was meh… A bit wooden and unconvincing. Ian the paramedic was the only convincing one.

    It’s all over now, questions will still be asked. People will still be either sceptical, believers or sycophants. The sycophants vastly outweigh the cynics and believers so the cynics can never be taken seriously 🙂

    I still think it’s all bollocks.

    Also, to be annoyed at the negative feedback and cynicism you have to ask yourself how he can dish it out himself and not like it when it’s aimed it him? See:

    I just sicked up a bit in my mouth reading @derrenbrown on Twitter.

  157. Written by Sven
    on 03/11/2012 at 5:59 pm

    I was skeptical after reading this blog before watching part 2. It kind of ruined part 2 a bit thinking it might have been staged. But on reflection, having seen part 2, I have to disagree with you all. Steven was a bit wooden. But real people can be like that. If it was being faked, they wouldn’t have settled for that performance from Steven. It wasn’t ‘good’ enough. Of course he was playing along subconsciously – isn’t that what being hypnotised is? His reaction to the actress playing the girl when he met her at the party was the clincher. Steven looked embarrassed by the fact that he had genuinely cared for her safety. That was very real. I reckon you lot are all wrong.

  158. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 03/11/2012 at 6:15 pm

    You’re welcome to you opinion Sven and I respect that. I disagree though 🙂 lol

  159. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 03/11/2012 at 6:20 pm

    Read Donald Robertson’s expert opinion on the way hypnosis actually works, Sven; because, let me tell you, it doesn’t involve making someone faint over the phone.


  160. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 03/11/2012 at 6:24 pm

    Yeah, Brad. If anything, I would love Derren to explain Donald’s post.

  161. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 03/11/2012 at 6:30 pm

    Just found this book extract, Mr. G:

    “I am often dishonest in my techniques … I happily admit to cheating, it’s all part of the game. I hope some of the fun for the viewer comes from not knowing what’s real and what isn’t.”

    – Derren Brown, Tricks of the Mind, page 341


  162. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 03/11/2012 at 6:34 pm

    … but Channel 4 would not allow such dishonesty lol

  163. Written by Betty
    on 03/11/2012 at 10:49 pm

    Hmm I’ll admit I’m in two minds about it being faked, although most of the ‘evidence’ for this seems to be irrelevent or unsubstantial. Even if it isn’t faked, I’m rather disappointed, as the whole entertainment value of the show is about watching Steve in the situation, rather than the ‘wow’ factor of Derren’s usual stuff with the emphasis on “how the hell did he do that?” or “is it possible to do that?” (eg. bloke confessing to murder)

    Obviosuly he’d need someone suggestible for logistical reasons like moving him under hypnosis, but would be able to choose the right person, get consent, and ‘induce’ him to hypnotism during the selection process. I’m surprised this wasn’t referenced in the show – perhaps that is supicious?

    A few people have commented on the ethics/legality of doing this to someone. I would like to point out that with regards to PTSD, it has been shown that what happens to someone AFTER a trauma is often more important than the trauma itself. Someone with support from family and friends, counselling, etc is far less likely to develop PTSD.
    Also, he discovers that his loved ones are safe, so it is maybe not as personal as some traumas. In addition, it’s only two days until he finds out it’s a hoax. The first stage of shock is disbelief, so perhaps finding out that it’s not actually true in these early stages is easier to recover from? Most people with PTSD don’t suddenly find their loved ones are alive again or whatever, they have to live with a different life as well as cope with the events.
    Finally, PTSD is also far more likely when the person feels helpless in the situation – when their ‘fight or flight’ response is frustrated. Steve, on the other hand, has obvious things he can do to improve/escape the situation.

  164. Written by J M
    on 04/11/2012 at 8:25 am

    Appreciate the post and screenshots. I was skeptical about the show, but once I saw that instant hypnosis on the bus during what would have be an adrenalin filled moment, it just seemed silly.

  165. Written by Steve
    on 04/11/2012 at 10:35 am

    Derren Brown has gone too deep into the well and is now denying every accusation with all the credibility of a Lance Armstrong or Ben Johnson.
    What else would he do. He’s blown it for many 🙂

  166. Written by Steve
    on 04/11/2012 at 10:44 am

    ….. of course, there will still be some dipsticks who have watched this and been duped. Life is full of them; maybe they are the majority, heaven forbid?
    It’s a shame they are insulated from Darwinism by modern life …. else the gene pool would surely be much richer 😉 😉

  167. Written by Steve
    on 04/11/2012 at 11:03 am

    Just looked at that link to Steve Brosnans CV posted on CastingCallPro.

    Interesting dilemma for the ambitious Steve. Are his acting aspirations now dead? Has he received a massive pay-off from ch4 to shelf them, or will he emerge somewhere further down the line when this is all forgotten?
    That will be a very bad day for Derren Brown, but the duped will still find a way to rationalize his re-appearance.

  168. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 04/11/2012 at 11:41 am

    Of course they will. If he starts an acting career then people will say that Apocalypse inspired him to do so. This will also be Derren’s stance I think. I find it weird how Steve is suddenly a teacher?!? Teacher of what?

  169. Written by R
    on 04/11/2012 at 1:22 pm

    Teaching assistant, not teacher.

  170. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 04/11/2012 at 5:57 pm

    Why would they say “teacher” and not “teachers assistant”? There is obviously a difference.

  171. Written by Gary
    on 04/11/2012 at 7:25 pm

    Apologies if this has been mentioned above already, but am on my phone so can’t see the whole page.

    But, i believe that there is an error in the show which people haven’t noticed. I think i only did because i am a lighting technician.

    In the scene where Steven and the paramedic broke their way in through the door and then closed it it was pitch black in the room yes? Then the night vision camera came on so the audience could see what was going on. Anybody notice the shadows of the paramedic and other things in the ‘pitch black’ room created by the camera? Surely they would have noticed the guy in the corner with that much light, but it wasn’t until the main light was switched on that they could actually see him after he walked towards the paramedic guy.
    And more than that, how come Steven didn’t notice the light from the camera, unless of course he knew it was being filmed…

  172. Written by R
    on 04/11/2012 at 8:03 pm

    Who said he’s a teacher? Derren’s blog says he’s a teaching assistant and implies that he’s hoping to eventually be a teacher.

  173. Written by Will
    on 04/11/2012 at 9:27 pm

    I just watched both parts of the program just now and I feel that whole story was just so unbelievable. Everything went to plan, nothing went wrong. Steven did exactly what Derren intended him to. I predict that something will come out later down the line and to be honest I wouldn’t be surprised as I think that all of Derren Brown’s shows have always been bullshit.

  174. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 05/11/2012 at 2:05 am

    Interesting, Gary… interesting.

  175. Written by Lee
    on 05/11/2012 at 10:14 am

    one thing.. when Ian and Steve go looking for the radio, why does Steve sit in the back of the ambulance and not ride up front with Ian?… thought that was a bit strange…

  176. Written by Grumpy Git
    on 05/11/2012 at 11:13 am

    Because the cameraman was in the back of the ambulance 😀

  177. Written by Steve
    on 05/11/2012 at 11:54 am

    Wonder if some of these posts are planted by Derren Brown’s damage limitation team?

    Why is “R” chasing the teacher/teaching assistant detail so vigorously? Is it because it’s one unimportant issue that can actually be challenged here to muddy the water … or is he a teacher offended by the comparison?

    How about the “shills” addressing the main criticisms?
    (Can’t believe I used that word as I am often accused of being a “shill” when I correct misinformation posted by Moon Hoax believers on YouTube)

    To me, the “professional” actor denial is a bit like Lance Armstrong’s “I’ve never failed a drugs test” claim; true but just hiding behind on the precise meaning of words to “avoid” admitting things directly.

    Bottom line ….. Derren Brown over-extended … blew it by over-ambition … and has almost certainly lost the most discerning of his audience. However, he probably still has the attention and adoration of muppets, and I’m sure they will keep him in pocket. These same muppets have short memories too. 🙂

  178. Written by Steve
    on 05/11/2012 at 12:16 pm

    …. sorry “R” .. you weren’t denying it “vigorously” 🙁

  179. Written by R
    on 05/11/2012 at 12:51 pm

    I’m female and I’m not working for Derren (as far as I know… oooo spooky). I don’t think enough of his audience are still reading this for him to be bothered what anyone is saying here.

    I corrected the ‘teacher’ point because it’s something I know the answer to, I can’t answer any other points because I have as much information as anyone else here (aside from having read Derren’s blog post more carefully, evidently).

  180. Written by Steve
    on 05/11/2012 at 6:21 pm

    Sorry “R” … I believe you …
    I picked on the nearest “defender” 🙂

    Maybe we should press DB to publish the “Risk Assessment” his people would have has to produce for Ch4? 😉

  181. Written by gilbo303
    on 05/11/2012 at 7:20 pm

    Hey guys, awesome debate!

    A couple of points I’d like to address:

    Someone mentioned it’s seems odd that Steven has been seen in pictures wearing a suit, looking profesional, inferring that it seems odd a ‘down & out’ is seen in such pictures, well, I’ve been down on my luck and finances a few times over the years, however, I keep my personal appearence during these times, sharp as a whistle, especially online content!!

    The comment about running, and clicking heals if stuck, this refers (IMO) to his sponsored run he completed a while before shooting took place, it’s posted on the first page of this blog somewhere, nothing to see here folks…move along to:

    A lot of people saying ‘you cant just pick up a phone and collapse under hypnosis’ or ‘you can’t put someone in a trance, on a bus, just by whispering to them!’
    Well, of course, but one can set up the hypnosis/state of mind well before-hand, to be triggered by a key word at a later point in time. as far as I am aware, variations on this are well practiced in such acts, and I for one have certainly seen Derren use similar methods in his shows over the years.

    And Grumpy, with regards to ‘suspicious’ IP addresses, I would hazard a guess that a lot of people here are replying from work based computers, I’d safely assume some may well be legitimately provided by employers in the media industry… thoughts? Does mine look sus?

  182. Written by Brad Taylor
    on 05/11/2012 at 8:55 pm

    “I for one have certainly seen Derren use similar methods in his shows over the years.”

    I’m sure you have. I remember seeing something similar in an episode of Neighbours once as well.

  183. Written by James Holden
    on 05/11/2012 at 10:14 pm

    Hi all,

    First off a fantastic debate! Just wached the two programs and this is obviously derren browns most sacharrine and most fake program ever. Besides the acting is terrible by all, and the story is so contrived it makes hollywood movies seem fresh.

    Now what no one mentioned, and I literally laughed out loud yes LOLed when they done it…at the phone “interception” GUI thing on computer. Being a veteren engineer who has worked in mobile phone networks and mobiles this is impossible to setup like this…you cannot duplicate and read a phone like this. Its not possible. Even for james bond this would be a laugh as its so far fetched. Sorry this was the biggest lie and fakery from my side…some techincal evidence to add to the already huge fakery conversation.

    Sad to see derren go down this road. The show was awful, bad tv…and derrens “enthusiasm” and smiles grates and is very annoying to boot. Shame.

  184. Written by Maccy
    on 05/11/2012 at 10:40 pm

    He is said to be lazy and all this other stuff but on his twitter account it says twice marathon runner? If you can run a marathon you are defiantly by no means lazy. Also who honestly believes that if you was sitting on a bus and things were blowing up around you you’d just be sitting there looking out the window! I’m not stupid enough to believe any of it derren can’t speak to someone through the phone and they just fall on the floor asleep, poor quality acting throughout!

    The only explanation is he was trying to do to the viewers at home what he said he was doing to Stephen making people watching the telly think more about life and everything, or is that thinking to far in to it.

  185. Written by Steve Brady
    on 05/11/2012 at 11:28 pm

    Program was fake, quite obviously, but what interests me are two, or perhaps three, kind of inter-related points. The program was problematic from the outset, because too many things just stretched credulity. Why have such a complicated “Mission Impossible” set-up, with so many chances for the mark to become suspicious? Steven is supposed to be chronically selfish and lazy underachiever, but he just happens to avidly check up on the BBC current affairs and NASA websites on his mobile phone – which turns out to be very handy when they call in the hacker boffin to activate the undocumented features that are obviously built into every mobile phone in case the real life Impossible Missions Force should need to make use of them. The entire post-apocalypse “plot” really doesn’t bear close scrutiny. Would anybody in Steven’s situation, however traumatized, seriously imagine that the ambulance was the only available transport between the Home Counties and Wales, and decide to walk? Given the information that you had a two day deadline before the “borders are closed”, would your initial reaction not be to question exactly how that would be accomplished?

    Derren Brown is quite obviously an entertainer, illusionist, conjurer, call him what you will, and part of the fun of such acts has always been trying to figure out how it’s done (whenever the secret *is* revealed, though, it’s pretty much always disappointingly less ingenious than you might have imagined). With all the great magic tricks, you see it with your own eyes, but you don’t truly believe it because you know that it’s impossible. In the case of this program, I don’t believe it just because it doesn’t seem believable, so for me, it’s a failure.

    But why are there all these Derren supporters who seem to want to believe that the man has genuinely mystical supernatural powers of mind control? Are they just the same sort of people who believe in horoscopes, and gypsy fortune tellers?

    Finally, given that the ultimate narrative thrust of this program was that Derren Brown had purportedly genuinely done something that had had a profound positive effect on a young man’s life, rather than just set out to entertain the audience, then if the program was basically fake, which I believe it was, isn’t that somewhat repugnant?

  186. Written by minicam
    on 06/11/2012 at 11:33 am

    I have said it before earlier in this thread, but now both programmes have aired I feel I can say a little more.

    We took all the hidden camera shots of Steven in his house. I personally hid some of the cameras, ran the cables, and hid in the shed in the back garden for days on end.

    I was there at the final reunion between Steve and his family (of the 25-30 minutes or so of footage there was of this, only about 30sec to 1 minute was broadcast). Sitting in the shed that day, watching the monitors, I have to say it was incredibly emotional, and I’m sure all of the crew felt the same way.

    Over the time that the programme was shot, I and my colleagues felt a genuine liking for the guy, and I can also say that the Steven who came to see us in the shed after all was revealed, and shared a sandwich with the crew afterwards certainly seemed a more outgoing and confident person.

    To the supposed mobile telephony expert who would tell you all it is impossible to do to stevens phone what was claimed on the show, all I can say is, it isn’t impossible, it was done, I saw it.

    I do not know how the hypnosis was done. I do know that when Steven was brought back to his house that day, put into bed, and told not to wake up until his phone alarm went off, any doubts about the validity of hypnotism that I had were dispelled.

    To sum up. If Steven was an actor then his family had to be actors too, and the only people who knew about it were them and Derren himself, as 100% of the crew involved, including the production team, technical staff, sound recordists, cameramen and lighting technicians to name a few were all unaware.

    This was probably my favourite production that I have worked on in recent years. At the reveal at the end, to see Steven watch in amazement as we uninstalled the cameras from his house, was great. And it was good to finally talk to the subject we had been secretly filming for weeks.

    I’m sure there will still be doubters but thats ok, at least they helped generate hype for the shows themselves. Whether or not you believe that Stevens reaction was genuine, and whether or not you thought it was good TV is up to you. But for me, its certainly a production that I will always look back on with good memories.

  187. Written by Sarah Downey
    on 06/11/2012 at 12:10 pm

    Derren Brown’s SELF-Apocalypse – a better name!

    Terrible show! Fake fake fake…very sloppy on all levels, even the mission impossible computer hacker thingy was so stupid – do your research.

    My favourite stupid part was the bus where all the explosions looked disneyland-lite. So bad. And the peoples reaction was soooooo crap, no panicking…just ooohs and ahs – and a look out of the window. Bad acting kid from steven. In a disneyland you would get more screams and reaction!!! And the hypnosis, just more stupid.

    And the previous poster who says, “I was was there I saw it”…dont make us laugh, I think miilions saw moving statues and believed it too. Doesnt mean its an iota true.

    I hate liars, I hate derren brown for being one and thinking he can get away with it. I wont trust any of his stuff again, since he is a liar. I don’t like his snigger laugh either.

    Poor show all round, I hope Derren comes out and apologises.

  188. Written by minicam
    on 06/11/2012 at 12:20 pm


    You are basing your opinions on the 2 hours you saw on TV. I am basing mine on the 100+ I was involved in the production.

    As I said its up to you what you believe, I am only telling you what I saw.

  189. Written by Darren Braun
    on 06/11/2012 at 12:35 pm

    OK, I admit it. He was an actor and the whole show was a scam. I’m sorry. But my next project involves putting a pensioner in space and making her think that it’s a bingo hall. It should be good. We are going to use one of old dears from Watchdog.

  190. Written by Sarah Downey
    on 06/11/2012 at 12:47 pm

    That’s why no one should trust you! You are a member of his team, people don’t care what you saw or more what you thought you saw – that’s purely subjective. Means nothing.

    We can only judge on what we the audience saw in two hours and evidence is over whelming that this was pure sloppy setup with bad actors, poorly researched mission impossible hack type story lines and a sugary Hollywood ending that makes your teeth rot.

    Derren and that includes you, shot themselves in the foot. He is exposed as a fraud. That’s a pity. it has been coming as those mentioned he used actors before and his lottery thing was caught to be fake too. All lies, lies all the time.

    It has failed from an audience perspective for many folk, simply as that. And again, just because you were there doesn’t give it more credibility, in fact your input should be less trusted and we should very very skeptic of you or anyone tied to this type of fake tv.

  191. Written by minicam
    on 06/11/2012 at 1:08 pm


    I should point out that I am not part of the production team, nor in any way affiliated with Derren Brown. If you read the credits at the end, you can see who the production team are, and you can probably work out where I work too.

    My company was contracted in to do some of the more difficult hidden camera work, where the subject was not to know that he was being filmed.

    As I said before your opinion is your own and that is fine. Your opionion is subjective as you are seeing hundreds of hours of work condensed into 2. Mine is objective because I was involved “behind the scenes”. We were not consulted on what the content should be, or involved in desicion-making or artistic processes, we were simply told what rooms to film and on what days.

    Whatever else you might think about the programme, I can tell you with certainty that Steven was not an actor, nor was he playing along or “in-on-it”.

    If you didn’t enjoy the show thats fine, and if you thought the actors were bad, thats fine too. All I’m saying is that Steve Brosnan’s “acting” was his actual reaction to a situation he was placed in that he knew nothing about.

    As for the show being exposed as a fraud, I’m afraid that will never be possible, simply because it wasn’t.

  192. Written by Zombie
    on 06/11/2012 at 2:26 pm

    Re the water bottle continuity. You also have to ask yourself why the bottles were there in the first place. There is no need for them in the shot and it would be a continuity nightmare waiting to happen so why take the risk?

    Of course there is editing…’s a two hour show shot over 48hrs. It is plausible that the shot of the “moved” bottles was a later shot maybe after the ambulance stopped at the hideout, but for dramatic editing it was spliced in before the journey took place because at that point they did not get the shot they wanted and they obviously couldn’t stop and re-shoot because it wasn’t fake. Does anyone really think that the order the edit is put together strictly reflects the order in which things happened? If you do, you don’t understand editing.

    If it’s in the final edit – they wanted it in the show.

  193. Written by Sarah Downey
    on 06/11/2012 at 2:38 pm

    Well minicam, if you were connected to the show, so therefore we should be very suspicious, contractor or not. You were paid to do work for them – its a conflict of interest, right off the bat.

    Just because you say its not a fraud is meaningless. What most folk here agree, from our evidence, the acting (the appalling acting), the poor technical research, it is a sloppy sloppy job.

    Why does Derren lie through his teeth; once again like he did with the lottery thing and voodoo woman actress and I’m sure much more. For sure he will lie again and again to our faces. Eventually nobody will care.

    At the end of the day – THE AUDIENCE decides not you. We cannot trust anyone who was paid to do work on this tv show. Bad tv is bad of enough, bad fraudulent tv is just sad and pathetic.

    Let the buyer beware.

  194. Written by Zombie
    on 06/11/2012 at 2:53 pm

    I was only disappionted in the show because I didn’t think his reactions were what I would expect but this could be my issue. I would have been freaking out and asking a million questions. I also didn’t feel I was on an emotional journey with him. I thought that he was going to be at a much lower ebb, really taken to bits and then built back up again. So for me, if it was fake, it was a bad fake, if it was genuine it didn’t hit the highs and lows I was expecting in order to make it a truly emotional experience for me and him. His reactions when back at home at the end seemed totally genuine however.

    This leads me to conclude that his reactions were genuine because it could have been faked so much better.

  195. Written by Steve
    on 06/11/2012 at 4:47 pm

    Well said Sarah …
    Go away minicam …
    LOL! …. Darren Braun!

    Can’t believe some come here trying to hang on to this as reality?

    Learning how gullible people are is depressing.
    It’s the same with so many things today … people all too often get their science “education” from fantasy and Hollywood. They believe bodies are “thrown” by bullets, that exit-wounds are wounds of entry, that sound propagates in space, that bombs produce big, soft balls of fire, that a man can floor dozens of others with his martial skills. And they believe in vampires and zombies too!

    I don’t need a shred of evidence outside the transmitted footage to know Steven is fake; evidence just confirms instinct. I believe, and hope, this is the case for many others too.
    Many have posted here showing good instincts and that is heartening. I will try to hang on to that to avoid topping myself! 🙂

  196. Written by minicam
    on 06/11/2012 at 4:54 pm

    It is interesting to see how irrational some of the doubters appear to be in their posts.

    As for evidence confirming instinct, I’m afraid you have no evidence, nor will any appear. As I said, believe what you like, that doesn’t change the fact that you are wrong on this one.

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